Dreamers of Delay and Deceit on THAT Day

At first it may seem a little strong and bold to call the fundamentalist’s controllers of the SBC
“dreamers of deceit”, or to call anyone “dreamers of deceit” like Jeremiah, even as God through
Jeremiah did years before the destruction of Jerusalem.
 {Note in the references from
Jeremiah below, how Jeremiah said that he was quoting directly from “the LORD” with
the oft repeated “the LORD said or says”.  Also note that the false message of the
dreamers was for “peace”, which is okay when the future is really going to be peace
instead of calamities; but they were predicted continued prosperity and security under
the name of “peace”, when according to God that just was not to be!  What was to be
was 70 years of captivity by the more fortunate residents of Jerusalem and Judah.}
Surely you could summarize the statements below from God Himself in terms of God just does
not appreciate dreams, vision, false words from God that are lies!  
{Lies is something also you
will find quite often as God’s summary of the messages and influence of all the official
prophets and priests!}

Most of you who read this post are not going to even believe that such Scriptures exist in the
Bible, because that is not what you are hearing; most of you can never believe that your
official ministers are in the category of these dreamers even though you hear the same words
from them; but if you are persistent enough to persevere through this message, you are going to
hear the real word of God on eschatology, and from the complete Bible, not the Scoffield
Notes.  Granted, your ministers today are doing some good even if they have sold out their
souls to Scoffield on eschatology:  it is much like the official prophets and priests of Jeremiah
of whom God said, “they have healed the hurt of my people only slightly”, and they did that by
preaching a false peace, security, and prosperity that just was not to be.  Your credulity will
be taxed even as you still can not believe 911 nor the intense series of calamities on God's
people in the US since 911, nor the calamity of the second kind of the earthquake and tsumnami
in Japan.  You still have trouble believing the recent economic collapse in the American
economy, and the many revelations of greed, deceit, and cover-up by once respect financial,
educational, and political leaders.

1.  Jeremiah 6:13-14.

“Because from the least of them even to the greatest of them, everyone is given to
covetousness; and from the prophet even to the priest, everyone deals falsely.  They
have also healed the hurt of My people slightly, saying, ‘Peace, peace!  When there is
no peace.”

Worse than covetousness and false dealings, the complaint of God against the ministers was
that they preached a future of peace, prosperity, and security that was a lie!

2.  It was the ministers {prophets and priests of that day} who kept Jeremiah from preaching
the Word of God in the Temple, instead he daily spoke at the gates; and it was this same
ministers who lead in false praise chanting and worship, lead the congregation to repeat, “the
temple of the LORD, the temple of the LORD, the temple of the LORD are these {fortified
cities, government buildings, and the temple}, although from God’s perspective this provided
leadership based on “a trust in lying words” (Jeremiah 7:4), for no longer were these buildings
blessed and inhabited by God.

3.  Jeremiah 8:10.

“Everyone is given to covetousness, from the prophet even to the priest.  Everyone
deals falsely.”

4.  Jeremiah 23:1,2.

“’Woe to the shepherds who destroy and scatter the sheep of My pasture!’ says the
LORD.  Therefore thus says the LORD God of Israel against the shepherds who feed
My people:  ‘You have scattered My flock, driven them away, and not attended to
them.  Behold, I will attend to you for the evil of your doings,’ says the LORD.”

5.  “’For both prophet and priest are profane.  Yes, in My house I have found their
wickedness,’ says the LORD.”  (Jeremiah 23:11)

6.  “Do not listen to the words of the prophets who prophesy to you.  They make you
worthless; they speak a vision of their own heat, not from the mouth of the LORD.”  
(Jeremiah 23:16)

7.  “I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran.  I have not spoken to them, yet
they prophesied.”  (Jeremiah 23:21)

NOTE:  Never forget that starting with Jesus in the first century, pastors, teachers,
evangelists and prophets were ordained by the Ascended Christ; prophets and prophesy
became more democratic, and as in I Corinthians 14 prophesy applies to all speaking in
public worship.

8.  “’I have heard what the prophets have said who prophesy lies in My name, saying ,
‘I have dreamed, I have dreamed!’  How long will this be in the heart of the prophets
who prophesy lies?  Indeed they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart...”  
(Jeremiah 23:25)

NOTE:  Are the ministers that bad off today?  Well, that is the purpose of this and
the next two Bible studies in Jeremiah and Prophesy.  It should easily be seen that
dedicated fundamentalists of the Scoffield Bible Notes on eschatology are guilty of the
same deceit and delay about what God has said and shown is and will really happen!

9.  “The prophet who has a dream, let him tell a dream; and he who has My word, let
him speak My word faithfully.”  (Jeremiah 23:28a)

10.  Jeremiah 23:30-32:

“’Therefore behold, I am against the prophets,’ says the LORD, ‘who steal My words
every one from his neighbor.  Behold, I am against the prophets,’ says the LORD, ‘who
use their tongues and say, ‘He says.  Behold I am against those who prophesy false
dreams,’ says the LORD, and tell them, and cause My people to err by their
recklessness.  Yet I did not send them or command them; therefore they shall not
profit this people at all,’ says the LORD.”

All the official and professional prophets {preachers} had an eschatology for the future which
ignored:  (1) the present “Falling Away” {Jeremiah coined the word “backsliding” to describe it,
which is the last 2 stages of the 5 stage Falling Away of II Timothy 4:4,5, the turning away
from truth and the turn to fables, another way to describe dreams} condition of God’s people
on their “ways and doings”; (2) the imminent destruction of Jerusalem; and (3) dreamed their
own visions of peace, security, and prosperity for God’s people.  Well, the fundamentalists
preachers of today with their charts and confusing time lines are doing exactly the same thing,
not only of the current condition of the “ways and doings” of God’s people in the churches but
also on the immediate future {eschatology, end times, or last things}.

14-1:  A Little Current and Oral History on the Fundamentalists of the SBC.

1.  Darby, a divorced Irish Lawyer started the dreams of deceit with his theology of
dispensational ism {did worse than the revisionist of secular history in efforts to impose a
church history on the history in the book of Revelation}, millennium ism {only “the” and “a”
millennium in the Bible but never “one” thousand years like the fundamentalists claim}, and
“rapture” {not a Bible word};
2.  Scoffield, also a divorced lawyer, and after forsaking law in favor of the pastorate of the
First Congregationalists Church in Dallas, Texas, distributed in the backwoods regions of
Texas, Arkansas, and Tennessee a correspondence course that introduced the infamous
Scoffield Reference notes on eschatology.
3.  These backwoods preachers of Tennessee, Texas, and Arkansas--only their gullibility for
Congregations teachings on eschatology remains a mystery that can only be explained in terms
of “greed”--solidified the false concepts of one thousand years and a rapture before the
Second Coming in their Bible Baptist churches, colleges, and seminaries.
4.  The Scoffield Reference Bible became popular among Southern Baptists and Bible Baptist
as an easy explanation of the book of Revelation and last things, and to this very day is
promoted day in and day out, sort of like the way Satan works always going about to seek whom
he may devour and deceive, by a Scoffield Bible Association in Memphis, Tennessee.  {We
probably can look here for the influence on Bellevue after the retirement of Dr. R. G. Lee and
the ascendancy of the fundamentalist leader, Adrian Rogers, who with Charles Stanley and W.
A. Criswell lead Bible Baptists to first split the SBC into 3 denominations and then take
control of the SBC.
5.  Bible Baptists moved into the more prosperous SBC churches, and finally into control of the
SBC fighting against a straw man of liberals and moderates {coming to a head of control when
Stanley was elected President of the SBC and Winfred Moore was banished to Baylor, and
Bert Dominy and other dedicated SW Seminary professors were forced to leave}; when in
reality their primary motivation was to preserve the dreams of deceit on eschatology by Darby
and Scoffield.  {They had to preserve their sermon notes on last things preached for over a
hundred years!}
6.  Meanwhile in SBC churches as the world-wide movement of the Falling, which began
approximately 1968, spread into the local churches and denomination with itching ears
teachers, purpose driven “wants”, and “they will not endure sound doctrine” {intolerance toward
sound doctrine”, SBC churches and positions of denominational leadership began to select
preachers, leaders, and even Bible teachers in Sunday school classes of the itching ears and
intolerance toward sound doctrine kind.

NOTE:  When you see a preacher or teacher that spreads out all those weird charts
and time lines that try to delay the Falling Away and the Second Coming by one
thousand plus years, does it not seem to you that it is in the novel, new, and itching
ears category as compared to all the rest of the Bible.  Yes, it is a whole new world
of interpretation, of history, and of isogesis {reading meaning into the Bible} on the
book of Revelation and eschatology started by Darby and Scoffield and bought by
backwoods preachers, now the top leaders in the SBC and the pastors of prosperous

7.  Like in Jeremiah, where God’s people of Jerusalem told him to stop preaching {prophesying},
fundamentalists preachers ran off teachers of unsound doctrine from the pulpits and
seminaries, split the SBC, and told churches only to cool it as all would work out okay {in spite
of the obvious decline in the SBC today in any spiritual way that you chose to measure it}, just
like the dreamers of deceit in Jeremiah, the official and professional prophets and priests,
said that there would be no destruction of Jerusalem, only peace, prosperity, and security.  
Sound Bible teachers like Ray Summers at Baylor and McDowell at Southern were moved aside
in favor of the weird charts and crazy invented time lines which tend to delay the imminent
return of Christ for a thousand plus years!

NOTE: You would have to say that what church leaders have today most in common with
the dreamers by deceit, the official and false prophets of Jeremiah, is that both are
DEFENDERS OF THE STATUS QUO. You’re alright, we’re alright, and things will
continue always as they have since the creation of the SBC unless the “rapture” comes
first, then the real Christians will be removed from earth so the rest of the world can
go through the Falling Away and the Final Tribulation. It remains a mystery in their
theology who will be on earth to fall away from God, Christ, and the Bible if all the
church has already been removed to be with Christ.

And sorry, that this post is too large to be in the newsletter.  You may read the rest,
and hopefully you will, on the web page “Dreamers of Delay and Deceit on that ONE
Day”, at of course http:\\www.biblecombibleman.com , the main web site of
SunGrist_Bible.  However, below the Conclusion of this Post is included in order that
you do not miss the bottom line!

1.  "One DAY of the LORD and Lord" chapter in
2.  "Day of the LORD" web page.
 "Calamities Since 911" web page.
"Countdown One To Destruction by Deceit" web page.
"Doomsday in 163 years" web page, part of the Bible Studies in Jeremiah series
and the
Advanced Studies in Jeremiah and Prophesy.

14-7:  Some Perspective on the Southern Baptist Convention and other fundamentalists.

Henry Steele Commager, formerly of Amherst and recognized authority in American
Studies, were very objective in his treatment of THE AMERICAN MIND and of
contemporary American Society; and I am sure when he stated that the
fundamentalists movement was started by a group of California millionaires, he had no
personal axe to grind.  And one would think that the Scoffield Reference Bible {what
keeps these fictions of eschatology alive} Association in Memphis, Tennessee might have
similar connections to a group of millionaires, no doubt the same group that kept the
famous former fundamentalist pastor of Bellevue Baptist Church on the air long after
his demise.  In short, he like the other leaders who caused the split in the SBC like W.
A. Criswell and Charles Stanley did so because of their defence and commitments to
the eschatological fables of fiction and deceit from Scoffield.  And from a logical
standpoint, you can see how the 10% of Americans who own 50% of the wealth are
interested in a materialistic kingdom for one thousand years; how they don’t want to
admit their part in the Gospel of Wealth and the corollary of success of American
Thought, nor the more contemporary Gospel of Prosperity and Health.  They hope that
during this hypothetical one thousand year reign of Christ on earth {there is really no
such thing taught in the Bible, only in the Scoffield Notes}, they can hold onto their
vast material holdings; and like many other Christians today who thrive on and
encourage this deceit on eschatology from the fundamentalists, they did not admit the
present Falling Away of Christians and church members; and certainly deny the
possibility of church members still being on earth during the Falling Away and the Final
physical tribulation as this old universe crumbles and burns to pieces.

Surely there are some fundamentalists, faithful to their Bible and in particular II
Thessalonians, who have not bought the deceit of (1) the false rapture before the
Second Coming, (2) the deceitful denial that the Falling Away is currently taking place
in their own churches and ministry; (3) self denial that God has sent an intense series
of Calamities of the first and second kinds on God’s people of America which started
with 911; and (4) who are innocent on both how the Holy Spirit will be withdrawn from
earth during the Falling Away, how the Second Coming demands only the 3 signs of
withdrawal of the Spirit from earth, a visual on the man of sin which obviously is going
to be one of the Muslim leaders that desire the destruction of Jerusalem, and the
Falling Away.  And surely there are some remains of the slaughter of the
fundamentalists against the SBC, in churches and seminaries and colleges, who have not
sold out their souls to the eschatology of the fundamentalists, who only keep silent like
the 7,000 who had not bowed their knees to Baal during the days of Elijah, and do so
for political reasons and survival in the Convention hierarchy.  {This is part of the
professionalism where the politics of the SBC professionals becomes more important
than the Bible and the teachings of Jesus.}  It reminds one of how God blessed, in
spite of what they thought at first, a few thousands into Captivity under
Nebuchadnezzar and Babylon, because He had carefully prepared and chosen this ruler
to be his servant of preservation of a select few.  This was in spite of the fact that
Jerusalem and the temple were lost as part of the discipline of God, and that they
were taken against their will to Babylon.

Surely it is not also possible to accuse these fundamentalists of going as far as the
ministers of Jeremiah {the prophets and priests} in their backsliding or Falling Away--
now, we are talking about the morality, immorality, worship of false gods, and the
forsaking of the Living God--of the abominations and immorality of God’s people of
Jeremiah.  However, it is obvious that they are deceiving themselves and their own
people on eschatology, on the present Falling Away, on the deception of a false one
thousand years and a rapture before the Second Coming, and deceiving their own people
that they will not be earth during the Falling Away and the Final physical tribulation as
the universe crumbles.  While perhaps not all of the fundamentalists practice this
Scoffield deceit on eschatology, certainly the more vocal ones today and the ones who
split the Convention and destroyed careers and reputations of so-called “moderates”.  
{Hopefully you are beginning to see the way, for public relations purposes,
fundamentalists have defined a moderate.          


And so great is the deceit and delay of these dreamers and visionaries, that seldom if
ever will you hear them teach or preach on the most dominant and persistent concept in
the Bible on eschatology:  THE ONE DAY OF THE LORD AND Lord.  {Sometimes called
“that” day or “the” day.}  You see like mathematicians they like to make everything
complicated:  they want 1000 times 365 days or 365,000 days plus instead of the
simple ONE DAY that comes from the Word of God.  They don’t want it simple so they
can be unique as if the Word of God came out of them or came to them only.  Would
that there was time and space now to list all the Scriptures from the Old and New
Testaments on that ONE DAY, so that you might have some hope of rescue from these
dreamers of deceit; but instead, except for the mention below of one from the New
and one from the Old, you are referred to many posts on http:\\www.biblecombibleman.
com to these eschatological topics, especially to the book on SOME SOUNDS OF
SOUND FAITH which has a chapter on “The One Day of the LORD and Lord.”

1.  New Testament on the One Day.

“I will show wonders in heaven above and signs in the earth beneath:  blood and fire
and vapor of smoke.  The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood,
before the coming of THE GREAT AND AWESOME DAY OF THE LORD.”  (Acts 2:

NOTE:  (1) anytime you find in the Bible, and it is quite often, about the sun and moon
becoming dark, then you have found another reference to the events just before that
ONE Day, these final calamities, if you would, of the second kind now at work but
increasing to that final ONE day; and (2) look up sun and moon in your Bible if you can
not wade through all the concordance references to DAY.

2.  Old Testament on the One Day.

NOTE:  First a clue for you when you are about to be dumped on by dreams and deceit
on eschatology:  on the negative side anything you hear the non-biblical word “rapture”
or the non-biblical “one thousand years” {the bible says “the” thousand and “a”
thousand; and on the positive side, when your preacher ignores that what bound Satan
for a thousand years was the Coming of the Holy Spirit in great power, glory, and
conviction and restraining power on the first day of Pentecost after the Ascension, and
weaves some weird story to explain the withdrawal of the Holy Spirit from earth which
releases Satan.

“Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision!  For THE DAY OF THE LORD is near
in the valley of decision.  The sun and moon will grow dark, and the stars will diminish
their brightness.  The LORD also will roar from Zion, and utter His voice from
Jerusalem.  The heavens and the earth will shake; but the LORD will be a shelter for
His people; and the strength of the children of Israel.”  (Joel 3:14-16)

FINAL NOTE:  Look to the book of Romans for the defintion of the New Israel, the
new Jew, and the new children of Israel and of God.

The complete post on "Dreamers of Deceit and Delay", you will find on the web page by
that title,

All comments and dialogue is appreciated as criticism of our ministers, even when it is
based on the righteous judgment of the book of Jeremiah, is a very serious subject.  
If our ministers have really gone bad, which is the subject we will explore for this
Bible Study and the next two, then the best of us have gone bad; and we can easily
see that in spite of the knowledge that "righteousness exalts a nation, and sin is a
reproach to any people", we like God's people of Jeremiah have gone bad.  At least,
like in Jeremiah, God's people today have both lost the ability to see:  (1) the
condition of their churches and denominations today; and (2) the imminent sequence of
what God has in mind for the immediate future.  To respond in any way, you may use
the comment form below, or email SunGrist Bible at sungrist@aol.com.
Even to hold up our ministers of today in the light of the rotteness of the official
prophets and priests of Jeremiah, is as sacreligious as attacks on mother, apple pie,
and the American flag.  During the Final four this year one Butler in a interview with
TV said, "this is a sacred moment of the school's history"; and this may be a clue as
to why Americans can no presently face up to the "greed, deceit, and cover up" in
American Society, which must include the ministers as the religious leaders of the
nation.  Like among God's people before the calamity of the destruction of Jerusalem
and Captivity for 70 years, the society of Jerusalem and Judah had ignored or
forgotten all concepts of true sacredness.  Somewhere in the revealed two great evils
of God's people of this time and nation--(1) forsaking the God of living water, and (2)
creating substitutes for the real god in broken cisterns that could hold no water--are
the clues we need to be illuminated from the Word of God about what these
substitutes for salvation really were.  In fact, by the time we come to the third in the
series of bad ministers, "How Can All the Ministers God Bad at One Time?", we will go
through the whole book of Jeremiah noting specific examples of (1) how God was
forsaken, (2) how the Living God of the Living is the Living Water; and (3) some of the
broken cisterns offered to God's people by their religious, social, and political leaders
during this critical time in the history of the first nation of God's people.
Generally for any nation or government, the pattern of "The Rise and Fall of Rome" is a
general criterion for either emulation or abstinence.  For a nation of God's people who
desire the exaltation of God's righteousness, the rise and fall of Jerusalem should be
more the pattern.  At least by the third of this series, we will look more into the
combined social, economic, political, and religious history of Jerusalem and Judah,
centered around first the 50 year rule of a wicked King, Mannaseh (698 B.C.) and a
subsequent King, King Josiah, who lead in reformation intended to be revival based on
the re-discovery of the law and reading in the temple, which naturally in this third of
the series gives us a chance to discuss from the Bible the Royal Law of Leviticus and
In spite of the hideous nature of the fundamentalists minsters whereby with the
Fictions of eschatology from Scoffield,they deceive God's people to ignore the present
Falling Away in the churches and denominations; and whereby they delude God's people
into a false hope of a rescue, a rapture before the Second Coming, from the Falling
Away and the Final physical tribulation as the earth crumbles:  that is, in spite of this
obvious shortcoming of fundamentalists today which precisely places them in the same
boat as the official prophets and priests who deceived their own people on (1) their
present condition, and (2) what to expect in the immediate future. {This by far does
not accuse them of all the wickedness of those official prophets and priests, nor of the
people "who desired it so", which remains to be reconciled after a more detailed look in
Jeremiah of both the forsaking of the God of living water and the substitute cisterns
for salvation.  Fundamentalists get very emotional about their Scoffield Reference Bible
notes {mainly because they know that there is nothing to support their claims except
emotion and determination}; and surely some more hate email will come from them, so
that if you agree with these Bible Studies in Jeremiah, eventually to come out as a
volume in the LEARN CHRIST COMMENTARIES under the subject heading and subtitle
of "National Dens of Thieves" and "greed, deceit, and cover up", then say so.  
Certainly you will have to admit that this nation could never have gotten into the
current economic collapse of "greed, deceit, and cover up" without either a positive or
negative influence of the minsters of America!  You know, the "like the priest, like the
people" sort of thing!  In short, is there any rescue for the SBC from a similar long
Captivity to the fundamentalists before they destroy Jerusalem completely?  We have
already had 30 years of this "the Word of God came to them only" and "the Word of
God came out of them", must we like God's people of Jerusalem endure a full 70 years?
Please Send Us Your Feedback
* Required Field
Your name:
Job title:
Questions, comments, or feedback: